susancalvin: Bible nerd-dom

susancalvin (

susancalvin) wrote,
@ 2006-08-09 14:48:00

Bible nerd-dom

So, this week's parsha (Torah portion) is Parsha Eikev, somewhere in the middle of Deuteronomy (7:12-11:25 for the equally nerdy). This and the surrounding Torah portions are basically Moses' last minute exhortations to the Jews before he dies and they cross the Jordan River into the land of Israel. This parsha is a big list of commandments that the Jews must follow, and an enumeration of the rewards that G-d will give them if they play nicely: He'll defeat their enemies, and give them the Land, and make their crops successful and their animals healthy. But one of the statements that jumped out at me was this one:

"And the Lord will remove from you all illness, and all of the evil diseases of Egypt which you knew, He will not set upon you, but He will lay them upon all your enemies."

Now, (finally) I get to my question -- Am I crazy for being absolutely convinced that madvei Mitzrayim (the diseases of Egypt) is referring to STIs?

Rashi doesn't comment on it.

ETA: I think I figured it out. I clearly was thinking that participating in ma'aseh ha'eretz mitzrayim (the ways of the land of Egypt (Leviticus 18:3)) might lead one to acquire madvei mitzrayim.

(Post a new comment)

	medtecher 2006-08-09 07:30 pm UTC (link)
	It certainly makes sense to me. :) (Reply to this)

	zunger 2006-08-09 07:45 pm UTC (link)
	Yes. Yes, you are. :) (Reply to this)

	adereth 2006-08-09 08:08 pm UTC (link)
	Why do you think that? (Reply to this)(Thread)

susancalvin
2006-08-09 08:19 pm UTC (link)

So, I was hoping that by posting this, someone else might have some ideas. I don't have a great answer, but here's my thought process:

- There's clearly something unusual about these diseases. Otherwise, why the redundancy? It says that they'll be healed from all diseases AND all diseases of Egypt.

- So why are these diseases different from all other diseases? Well, the most likely answer is that the generic "diseases" is referring to diseases of the body and "diseases of Egypt" is referring to diseases of the spirit. Which makes sense.

- But I just have this nagging feeling that there's something else. I have some association that I can't put my finger on with referring to STIs as diseases acquired in a particular foreign country.

(Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	susancalvin 2006-08-09 08:20 pm UTC (link)
	And I just went and googled for "veneral disease archaic terms" and found "French Pox" as a name for syphillis. That's probably what I was thinking of, but there must be others. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	dlv78 2006-08-09 09:31 pm UTC (link)
	Speaking of French Pox, do you still have my copy of Quicksilver? (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	susancalvin 2006-08-09 09:33 pm UTC (link)
	As a matter of fact, I do! Would you like it back? I think I'm probably never going to finish it. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	dlv78 2006-08-09 09:44 pm UTC (link)
	Sure, just bring it to Coral or drop it in the lab sometime. I'm not in a hurry or anything. That whole series is definitely an acquired taste. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	zunger 2006-08-09 09:03 pm UTC (link)
	Hmm. I don't have a copy in Hebrew with me at work... it would be interesting to check the phrasing on this, to see how redundant the text is. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	susancalvin 2006-08-09 09:12 pm UTC (link)
	Wow, I was just wrong about the wording. It is pretty redundant though: "V'heysir H' mimcha kol choli v'kol madvei mitzrayim ha-ra'im..." (Reply to this)(Parent)

	susancalvin 2006-08-09 09:18 pm UTC (link)
	http://bible.ort.org/books/torahd5.asp?action=displaypage&book=5&chapter=7&verse=15&portion=46 (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	zunger 2006-08-09 09:31 pm UTC (link)
	How neat! Thank you. :) (Reply to this)(Parent)

susancalvin
2006-08-09 08:28 pm UTC (link)

Aha! I think I got it!

There's nowhere in the Torah where sex between two women is explicitly forbidden. All later discussion of it derives from the following passage in Leviticus (18:3) -

"After the doings of the land of Egypt, wherein ye dwelt, shall ye not do;"

Which is basically understood in the Talmud as "all the various kinky stuff the Egyptians were doing." So I guess I have some mental association between Egypt and forbidden sex acts.

(Reply to this)(Parent)

	stepleton 2006-08-09 10:00 pm UTC (link)
	What are the other options? Maybe another possibility could be ailments common to marshy river areas, e.g. mosquito-borne diseases like yellow fever and malaria. (Reply to this)(Thread)

	susancalvin 2006-08-09 11:23 pm UTC (link)
	So, I'm not sure what the other options would be. Because Israel has (or rather had pre-Huleh Valley drainage project) marshy areas with plenty of malaria. So, it would seem odd to call those diseases only "the diseases of Egypt." Are there specific types of diseases that might be associated with slavery? Because that could be it. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	medtecher 2006-08-09 11:56 pm UTC (link)
	"Are there specific types of diseases that might be associated with slavery?" Back problems? Whip marks? No, I'm not trying to actually be helpful... (Reply to this)(Parent)

	stepleton 2006-08-10 12:03 am UTC (link)
	Out of curiosity, do they mention malaria or something like it in the Torah/Bible? Most of the ailments I remember are ones from the Gospels: leprosy, blindness, schizophrenia (my take on demon possession). Aside from the "plague" on Egypt, that is. (Reply to this)(Parent)(Thread)

	susancalvin 2006-08-10 01:28 pm UTC (link)
	I couldn't say. But robogock has this cool Bible index thing that would probably be good for looking that up. (Reply to this)(Parent)

	skamille 2006-08-10 01:28 pm UTC (link)
	This post makes me think of the stereotypical Jewish mom voice saying "You see dear? This is why you should only sleep with nice JEWISH boys/girls." (Reply to this)

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